IT'S THE BLUES

Wednesday, September 21, 2005

PREVIEW AN UP-COMING SHOW

This his a short preview for a show at the Cedar Cultural Center on the west Bank of Minneapolis.
A SHOW TO TAKE NOTICE OF.
Two of the last surviving roots bluesmen of the twentieth century.

Friday October 21st. 2005 The Cedar Cultural Center is hosting what should be a very special night of blues from the delta. A virtual history lesson of the idiom of the blues conducted by two of the surviving originators of the music that spawned Muddy Waters, BB King, Eric Clapton, John Hammond, Big Jack Johnson and all the others that have come since. As Buddy Guy, Magic Sam, Otis Rush and others were considered the second generation of Chicago blues artists, these 2 men Robert Lockwood Jr. and David “Honeyboy” Edwards are two of the last of the second generation of delta blues kings, raised up and weaned on the music of Tommy Johnson, Charlie Patton, Blind Willie McTell, Blind Lemon Jefferson and many others, these 2 men are perhaps the last direct links to the legendary Robert Johnson.

Edwards hobo’d the countryside’s with the legendary musician and Lockwood by age 11 was receiving guitar lessons from his part time “stepdad” (Johnson) who was romantically involved with his mother, it was the older Robert that taught the younger, timing and rhythm on the guitar as well as the subtle technique which he has adapted and cultivated into one of the most remarkable styles in the past 60+ years of recorded music.

As a session player, Robert Lockwood as much as any other guitar player helped to shape the sound of modern blues; recording behind Rice (Sonny Boy Williamson II) Miller, Little Walter, Sunnyland Slim, Roosevelt Sykes, Eddie Boyd and countless others his signature sound, subtle and filled with jazzy grace not only complemented the recordings it helped to inspire these and other artists he worked with to push the accepted boundaries of the times. Playing a 12 string electric Gibson, Robert Lockwood is a rarity with a great jazz sensibility steeped in a deep traditional blues foundation he is as likely to amaze with an astounding flurry of notes reminiscent of Wes Montgomery as he is to give the audience chills as he recalls the bone shaking intensity of Robert Johnson’s Devil Got My Woman or Crossroads Blues. Weather solo or with his band of seasoned musical vets, Robert Lockwood Jr. is the real thing.

As for David “Honeyboy” Edwards he is also a genuine living legend with a history in Chicago that goes back to the late 40’s and another 20 odd years before that riding the rails throughout the southern delta with among others Robert Johnson, Johnny Shines, Rice Miller (S.B.W.II) he was a student of the blues of Charlie Patton, Big Joe Williams and in particular Tommy Johnson as he writes in his autobiography, ‘The World Don't Owe Me Nothing‘, "...it was in '29 when Tommy Johnson come down from Crystal Springs, Mississippi. He was just a little guy, tan colored, easy-going; but he drank a whole lot. At nighttime, we'd go there and listen to Tommy Johnson play." Honeyboy continues, " Listening to Tommy, that's when I really learned something about how to play guitar." It was in 1942 that library of congress archivist Alan Lomax found Honeyboy in Clarksdale MS and recorded 15 sides all of which went un-released until the early 1990‘s, Edwards didn’t record again for nearly a decade it was ‘51 when he recorded for the Artist label then in 53 he recorded a number of sides for Chess which all remained un-issued until an anthology contained his inspired rendering of ‘Drop Down Mama’. through it all he has remained an almost exclusively acoustic artist in the deepest tradition of the original delta blues weather solo or accompanied by as little as a harmonica player or a full band, Honeyboy Edwards is a real Delta Blues Man. He captivates and enthralls with his haunting guitar tone and his gentle demeanor is deceptively comforting as he recalls the darkest and most impassioned of the delta blues.

Now with both of them at age 90 (Lockwood was born March 27, 1915 and Edwards was born June 28, 1915) this could be the last trip to the Twin Cities for either of them. I have had the chance to see both men in resent years and neither are showing there age but you never know and as for the performance I can say with confidence that separately these two great artists are remarkable and one can just hope that they share the stage for at least a little while at this truly legendary show.
For info. You can contact the Cedar at: 612) 338-2674 or
go on-line to www.thecedar.org



Thursday, September 15, 2005

A CELEBRATION IN PICTURES. BB KING TURNS 80.


September 16th. 2005. B.B. King turns 80 years old.
And to celebrate the event I've decided to share a few of my favorite images. I've had the great pleasure to photograph him a number of times in the past few years and in this entry are just some of the results. In this Blog you can also find the interview I conducted with this blues great back in March of this year. enjoy.




Take a bow Riley King you've earned it!!

Sunday, September 04, 2005

DESERT ISLAND RECORDS send me your list...

This is by no means the only music I would want with me it's simply ten titles that came to mind plus one that no one should be without. I look forward to you sharing your lists as well feel free to post them along with any other comments or questions in the comments section.

THE HOLLYWOOD FATS BAND ~ ‘THE HOLLYWOOD FATS BAND’ (a version released on Black Top Records in the early ‘90’s was titled ‘ Rock This House’): Michael ‘Hollywood Fats’ Mann is considered by many as one of the great guitar players of all time anywhere. By age 12 he was sitting in with the likes of Magic Sam, Muddy Waters, Buddy Guy & Junior Wells and countless others. And by 15 he was on the road playing behind J.B. Hutto, then Albert King, Then John Lee Hooker. In 1975 he was longing for home and returned to Los Angles and at 20 years old with Al Blake and Fred Kaplan founded what became The Hollywood Fats Band. This Recording which was released in late 1979 on Blue vinyl (very rare only about 2,500 were pressed) has subsequently been re-released a number of times; the best of which in the Cd age is a two disc set put out in 2000 on Cross Cut Records, with a deluxe package, the first disc is the original release in sequence while disc 2 contains alternate versions of just about every track plus a never released track called ‘Fred’s Blues‘. Listen to this release and you’ll understand why counted among his fans Fats could name Stevie Ray & Jimmy Vaughan, Ronnie Earl, Junior Watson and even Eddie Van Halen. His unfortunate death at the age of 32 in 1986 cut short a career that would have been a benchmark for all the players that have come since. As it is this recording is looked to as one of the great standard setting releases of it's time and has influenced a generation of stripped down back to basics blues revivalists.

JOHN HAMMOND ~ ‘JOHN HAMMOND’: When I was 13 I saw Muddy Waters for the first time, as a Punk Rock kid in southern California at the time it was a life altering event, the year was 1978 and the next day I hopped on my bike with about $70 in my pocket and pedaled to Music Market, the largest independent record store in the area at the time. I went straight for the back wall which had a big sign that said simply ‘BLUES’ and I began flipping thru the albums; having a very limited knowledge of the music I was searching for, many of my purchases that day were based on the cover art and one of the most captivating and intense covers was for this record, the debut on Vanguard by John Hammond. Released in 1964 when John was barley in his 20s; the black & white shot of him - profile with guitar in hand as he appears too sing out with passion, caught me and still refuses to let go. On that day I bought a lot of records by a lot of players including Muddy, T-Bone, John Lee Hooker, Elmore James and even Robert Johnson (also on this list) and though I love all of them and so many more this record by Hammond holds a firm grip on my psyche. And as I’ve learned about the blues over the many years that have followed, I find it remarkable the true passion and sincerity that this (at the time) young white kid from New York was able to interpret with such authenticity the delta blues that had been laid forth for most of the century prior. At a time when the so called white blues revival was in it’s infancy, this record as much or even more than most any other helped to open the door and pave the way for those that followed. After it’s release the boom began and within 3 years Korner, Ray and Glover, the Butterfield Blues Band, Charlie Musslewhite, Canned Heat and countless other young white blues interpreters were making waves as well as helping to raise the profile of those older black performers that taught them the blues in the first place, England did have the Yardbirds, the Animals and the Stones, but the Blues of John Hammond was more “REAL” than all of them combined.

Robert Johnson ~ ‘The Complete Recordings’: As I mentioned above one of the first blues artists that I ever heard was Robert Johnson, on my first day of blues record buying I was fortunate enough to get both King of the Delta Blues volumes 1 & 2, which of course after years of listening to them and hearing their influence in nearly every inch of popular and not so popular music in the last 50+ years I’ve learned the significant importance of these 29 songs on the development of popular contemporary blues, blues rock and hard rock music. It is by no means an overstatement to say that Robert Johnson did more to influence modern music than just about any other five artists you could think of, (baring of perhaps, Miles Davis, John Coltrane, The Beatles and a few others) Johnson is certainly as important as any of them if not more so. Sighted by no less than Muddy Waters, Jimi Hendrix, Eric Clapton, Jimmy Page, John Mayall and countless others as perhaps the greatest blues player ever, his guitar playing is magical, with a haunting tone weather playing slide or not and his vocals are otherworldly. One of the first releases in Columbia Records Roots ‘N’ Blues series, ‘Robert Johnson The Complete Recordings’ delivers all 29 original releases as well as many alternate takes that had been previously unreleased. Issued in 1990, since this release all of these recordings are available in countless variations, I cant help but chuckle when I’m going through the bins at my favorite music outlet and see as many as 40 or more different Robert Johnson Cd’s all with different packaging, on different labels with different art work and liner notes (if any); yet there are only 29 songs and every available version of all 29 are included in this package with a total of 41 tracks not to mention the 47 page (long) book that contains extensive note’s, original essays and even lyrics for all the songs, you don’t need anything beyond this package, if you have it, you have everything that this mythic figure ever gave for us to treasure.

WILLIE DIXON ~ ‘I AM THE BLUES’: In 1970 The big man Willie Dixon, set out to reinterpret some of the classics he had penned for many of the biggest artists in the world of blues the result is Columbia records ‘I Am The Blues’ contained on this fine release are 9 blues standards all written by the man many call the poet laureate of the blues having created literally hundreds of songs for scores of artists of which a partial list reads like a history of modern blues, he wrote for Muddy Waters, Howlin’ Wolf, Elmore James, Chuck Berry, Koko Taylor, Sonny Boy Williamson (Rice Miller), ‘Big’ Walter Horton, ‘Little’ Walter Jacobs, Bo Diddley, Otis Rush, Buddy Guy and the list just keeps going and going. Willie Dixon was perhaps one of the most important figures in the Chicago blues scene, as the liaison between the Chess Brothers and their artists, as the main songwriter, arranger, session producer, bass player, talent scout and more it was Dixon that after writing a song for Muddy would tell Waters that he had a great new song for the Wolf but maybe he’d like to cut it first and likewise for the Wolf, allowing each of these giants the chance to believe they had one-upped the other hence it was Dixon that was coaxing the best possible performances on songs like ’Spoonful’, ,Back Door Man’, ‘Seventh Son’, I Ain’t Superstitious’, ‘That Same Thing’, ‘You Shook Me’, I Can’t Quite You, Baby” and more; all of those and a few others are included here, with Willie’s terrific, sympathetic voice and the backing of his Chicago All-stars. The songs are great, these versions are great, the one downside on the original vinyl or any subsequent CD version that I've found is the lack of detailed liner notes, since as far as the band goes, it’s credited as the Chicago Blues All-Stars as I said, but that was a band that Willie had formed around 1968 (primarily for the American Folk Blues Festival Tours of Europe) and the line up changed often, so it could be Big Walter Horton on Harmonica or a very young Billy Branch. I’m pretty sure it’s Cash McCall on lead guitar considering he and I have talked about this recording and he told me it was him, beyond that I have no idea who the players are, I do know that these are great versions of 9 of Willie's best known tunes sung by the Big Man Himself Mr.Willie Dixon.

T-BONE WALKER~ ’LOW DOWN BLUES’: So if you’re already a T-Bone Walker fan then you know, but if you’re new to the name well you should begin studying. Aaron Thibeaux Walker is quite possibly the single most important electric guitar player of all time( except perhaps for Le Paul), his was the first electric guitar to be heard by BB King, Muddy Waters, Clarence ‘Gatemouth’ Brown, Albert King, Freddie King and numerous others, while most of the big band guitar men were still trying to be heard on their big acoustic axes, T-Bone discovered the fat bodied electric Gibson and jump started a revolution helping put the guitar at the forefront of the popular band instrumentation format. His stylized finger picked “uptown” sound plucking single notes as he sang in his silky smooth tenor voice. He not only led the way with electricity, but also helped pioneer the small jump combo at the end of the big band era, featuring a couple of horns, a drummer, piano player, bass and his guitar and vocals, his influence is immeasurable and his classic style unsurpassed even today, just think of the song ‘Call It Stormy Monday” (some times called ’Stormy Monday Blues’) this was Walker at his best and stands as one of the all time great blues standards. As for this pick well it was random, there are plenty of great T-Bone Walker compilations available and you’d be hard pressed to find a bad one, ’Low Down Blues’ was released on a label out of Great Brittan called Charlie R&B and contains 22 of T-Bones Classic 1940’s Black and White Label recordings including Stormy Monday, T-Bone Shuffle, She’s My Old Time Used To Be and more, I could have just as easily picked something from his Imperial Records days or his time on RCA or else where but I picked this one, all I can say for sure is that if you don’t already have some T-Bone Walker in your collection you need to fix that and soon.

OMAR ~ ‘BLUES BAG’: Born in Macomb Mississippi, the little country town that also gave us Ellis McDaniel (best know as Bo Diddley) Kent ‘Omar’ Dykes has spent the better part of the past 30 plus years as one of the mainstays in the red hot Austin Texas Blues scene as the front man for the road hardened outfit Omar & The Howlers. On ’Blues Bag” Omar’s first and as yet only solo release (at least in title) and to my ear at least his bluesiest with the first eight tracks featuring Omar solo on guitar and vocals (harmonica is added to his bag on ’Big Chief Pontiac’) then for tracks 9 thru 15 he’s joined by Gene Brandon on drums, Bruce Jones Bass and Greg ‘Fingers’ Taylor on Harmonica (some of you may know Taylor from his long association with Jimmy Buffet as his harp player for some 30 odd years). The results are pure gritty gut bucket blues with 12 Kent Dykes originals and 3 well chosen covers. Omar’s voice is the main attraction with his husky baritone breathing life into these blues like an iron lung. Imagine Credence meets Howlin’ Wolf with a splash of AC/DC thrown in, that’s about the range that Omar sings, and he makes it all blues here, known to rock hard with the Howlers when the occasion calls for it, ’Blues Bag’ Is what you might imagine he would play on his front porch on a lazy summer Saturday afternoon laid back yet intense, simple yet gripping, Omar writes great songs and sings with conviction, I love this record… And if you like the blues with some Texas soil in it this is just about as good as you’ll find.

MAGIC SAM ~ ’WEST SIDE SOUL’: At the risk of becoming redundant, this is one of the most important and influential blues recordings of the 1960’s. ‘Magic’ Sam Maghett born in 1937 in Mississippi, moved to Chicago and by the mid fifties had become one of the more popular of the second generation of urban blues players in Chicago, along with Freddie King, Buddy Guy, Otis Rush and a bit latter, Luther Allison and Lonnie Brooks, Magic Sam and these other mavericks raised the bar and set the standard for contemporary blues, while the older guys kept to the formula set down in the late forties and early fifties, Sam and the other second generation players adapted to the times and were able to incorporate the different sounds coming from the world of popular music, while Muddy Waters had trouble attracting a younger audience Magic Sam blended his heavy deep blues sound with large doses of rock and deep southern soul music to help create what would become the west side sound and by the release of this record ’West Side Soul’ Magic Sam was among the most popular acts in the genre and the sounds on this recording are unlike any thing that had come before it, it’s as though a 30 year old Muddy Waters recorded a record of James Brown songs, it grooves, it rocks and it gets down deep into your soul, Sam’s guitar along with that of Mighty Joe Young squeal and scream while Sam sings with a gritty soulful confidence rare even by today’s standards. This record contains some of his classics including ‘That’s All I Need’, ’All Of Your Love’, and his take on “Sweet Home Chicago’, which some consider to be the definitive version; these and other great tracks fill ’West Side Soul’ and live as a document of the great potential of a talent lost much too early. Unfortunately Magic Sam Maghett suffered a fatal Heart Attack in December 1969 he was just 32 and on his way to great heights. At least we have this and a few other recordings to preserve his legacy.

SAFFIRE ~ ‘THE UPPITY BLUES WOMEN’: The only women on this particular list Saffire are truly “uppity” and we all love it. And on this their debut record released by Alligator in 1990, they deliver the goods like fabulous diva’s that don’t give a damn what you or I think in the first place, these middle aged working moms, got into the music biz. at a rather late date but quickly proved themselves up to the task winning legions of fans and the attention of the legendary Willie Dixon whom it’s said was instrumental in these Uppity Blues Women getting signed to Alligator. On this release they deliver a set of eleven straight talkin’, frank, blunt blues that sound as though a time machine had set it’s controls for around 1929, rounded up Bessie Smith, Ma Rainy, Ida Cox and some of the other queens of the “golden era” of blues and dropped them firmly in the late 20th century… These women play mostly acoustic and sing with great conviction, and they are funny as well, I have to wonder if they realize how many men (myself included) get the oddest looks when we get caught at a signal light singing along to the Middle aged Blues Boogie --- “I Need a young, young man…” any how this record was a classic the day it was released and some 15 years later it is as good as anything that has come out since. Parts are sad, parts are joyous and parts are simply made to get you dancing. This is one of those perfect blues records that has something for everyone and keeps you engaged from track one to the very last note.

The CHRIS CAIN Band ~ ‘CUTTIN’ LOOSE’: If you’ve looked around in here, you probably already know that Chris Cain gets my award for the most underappreciated guitar player on the planet today. It simply doesn’t get better than this guy, everything that is Fats, Robert Johnson, Magic Sam, as well as BB Albert and Freddie King, well Chris Cain is the sum of all those parts with a heavy dose of T-Bone, Pat Matheny, Eric Johnson and countless others. Chris Cain can play his ass off and hardly break a sweat, if you want to try and cut heads with him you better be ready cause he can fire off a barrage of furious notes that are liable to knock you off your feet then flow into the tastiest mellow riff you’ve ever heard. Chris a one of those oh so rare musical geniuses. He’s taught music (jazz theory and composition) and he’s shared the stage with just about every blues great of the last quarter century. Cuttin’ Loose is his second release; his first for Blind Pig and it happened to be the first that I owned issued in 1990, it is a master piece of different styles of blues with Chris’ guitar and full thick baritone vocals out front along with dual Saxophones, bass and drums as well as a bit of keyboards also played by Cain. This is the definition of uptown blues with soaring horns and great arrangements that swing and jump in the best tradition’s of BB and Albert King, and although Chris was raised in the bay area of California this record at least to me seems to have a bit of a Texas vibe to it. The song writing is great the guitar superb and Chris has a voice that many singers would sell their souls for. This one or any in the Chris Cain catalogue are worth exploring.

HOUND DOG TAYLOR AND THE HOUSEROCKERS: It was 1971 and a young man named Bruce Iglauer borrowed money from friends and family so that he could found a record label in Chicago for the expressed purpose of recording Hound Dog Taylor and the House Rockers thus this record released in ’71 became in some ways the catalyst of the post Chess Records era and the foundation on which Alligator Records was built. And now 34 years later Alligator is considered one of the premier labels for blues throughout the world. It Started here with Theodore ’Hound dog’ Taylor, Brewer Phillips and Ted Harvey two guitars and drums, and Hound Dogs cigarette's and whiskey soaked voice; if you want rockin’ party blues this is where you’ll get them, Taylor had long been a mainstay on the Chicago blues scene and his weekly Sunday afternoon blues jam at the legendary Florence’s drew a who’s who of the blues world, he had never gained much notice outside of that city though within it he was highly regarded, he had recorded a few 45’s some for Chess in the late 50’s as well as a few others for some other now lost labels and most of his recorded out put never saw the light of day, it was this self titled release that put the blues world on notice and gave a wake up call to all that longed for real gritty down home blues, (the kind that was at the time getting lost in the era of “soul blues”; that smooth polished fare being produced by the likes of Bobby Bland, Little Milton, Johnny Taylor and others) that there was still some real straight ahead blues to be found, this record catapulted Hound Dog and the band to the top of the heap and within months they were touring the festival circuit world wide. He went on to record two more records for Alligator before is death from cancer in 1975 and they also released a live record and an album full of studio out takes from his recording sessions but it all started here. This truly is Genuine House Rockin’ Music!
and the bonus 11th record

ALBERT COLLINS, ROBERT CRAY, JOHNNY COPELAND ~ ‘SHOWDOWN’: This record released by Alligator in 1985 is a MUST HAVE for any blues collection. As the elder Texas master’s stars were both rising and Cray was about to break through to the level that few blues players have reached before or since. 'Showdown' is a terrific slice of guitar playing with each of these men given the chance to shine, they all sing, they all solo and they all seem to be having a good time, as they work through some great classic tunes, it has a definite Texas slant It is Albert Collins that was the real focus having come off of his appearance with George Thorogood at the world wide television event that was Live Aid he had already had a long established relationship with both Copeland (going back many years) to their days in Texas as well as Cray who’s band was one that would back Collins when he toured the Northwest, using Albert’s Icebreakers as the band, these three got to cut lose and stretch out as they each tried to top the other. Showdown has been on the list of countless critics as not only one of the best Blues records of ’85, but one of the best of the decade of the 80’s or even all time. It’s a fun filled masterpiece.

Friday, September 02, 2005

A CHAT WITH THE LEGEND MAVIS STAPLES.

Back in January 2005, I had the distinct pleasure to secure an interview with one of the great voice's of the last half century.. A woman that has sang Spirituals all of her life and who as the female lead vocalist of the Staples Singers is synonymous with the civil rights movement, gospel music and simple positive thought in the music world. It was a huge honor and a great thrill... The interview is somewhat long but I hope you enjoy it just the same ...


Conversation with a Genuine Legend
An interview by Mark Fredell
aired live on KFAI Radio January 2005, and transcribed and printed in the paper BLUE MONDAY


As those of you that read the January issue of Blue Monday learned, I have been volunteering at KFAI radio in the Twin Cities and on Friday the 14th of January I had the distinct honor of guest hosting the number one show on their airwaves, ‘The Sugar Shop’. As I was preparing for the show I discovered that the date happened to be the Friday before Gospel & Soul Legend Mavis Staples was performing at the Ordway in Saint Paul so being the ever diligent person that I am, I took a shot and made some calls to try a secure an interview with this Icon of popular music. Well it didn’t take long, after getting a hold of the radio PR person at Alligator records he told me he’d see what he could do and within two hours he called me back and said it was a go, he gave me Ms. Staples number and said she would be waiting for my call Friday afternoon. So Friday rolled around and armed with the number I set out for the studio and another fortunate date with (another) genuine living legend… I dialed her up at about five after three and once on the air it wasn’t so much an interview as a history lesson for yours truly I simply would give her a quick little talking point and of she’d go, unguarded and honest, open and sincere, she was a true delight to talk with and for what was perhaps the quickest 35 minutes I’ve ever experienced on radio, we chatted and the following are the results of that conversation…
Mark: Hello Ms. Staples. It’s a real honor to talk with you, happy New Year.
Mavis Staples: thank you and happy new year to you too…
M: I am just thrilled to have the chance to talk with you today; I guess we should start by letting our listeners know that you are coming to town this Sunday the 14th to the Ordway Theater with a 5:00 o’clock start time and you’ll be performing your tribute to Gospel Legend Ms. Mahalia Jackson.
M.S.: Mahalia Jackson that’s right…
M: Of course there are few people more deserving of tributes than her.
M.S.: That’s right, she was my idle and a few years ago (1996) I did a tribute CD and I’ve been doing these tribute concerts for a while now and it’s always a joy it’s always a wonderful time because her songs are so powerful and fully packed you know so I’ll be celebrating Ms. Mahalia Jackson as well as Dr. Martin Luther King…
M: That’s right for the one listener who maybe doesn’t know, next Monday is of course Martin Luther King Day. Of course the school kids all know.
M.S.: That’s right they do don’t they. Sister Mahalia Jackson you know she sang at his funeral. He, Dr. King requested the song for her to sing, actually she had sang the song at an event they were at together and he told her that he wanted her to sing that song for him if he went first, he wanted her to sing it at his funeral.
M: Now that brings up an interesting point, the Staples Singers of course were at least in my opinion true Icons, I put them at the same level as say Louis Armstrong, Marvin Gaye, The Beatles, as a group that really did change the popular music of the time and in doing so changed the thought process of society, of the people at the time.
M.S.; Thank you…
M.: Well it’s my sincere belief but it raises the question, where you as a group or individually, conscience of the power and influence of your music at the time where you aware that your music was helping to foster change or was it something that you didn’t really grasp until looking back through the eyes of history?
M.S.: Well we were conscience of the fact that we were singing songs that were inspiring and uplifting to people. We didn’t realize that we were actually changing any ones out look or anything. You know we were making different transitions in our lives as far as well, you know we started out singing strictly gospel songs and then people like Dominick Jazz, Matt Hintock these people started writing about us and see we would do folk festivals, our sound was good for anywhere you know and from these type events we started to move on and singing songs like um, Dylan songs, and Crosby, Stills and Nash. And these songs that were meaningful, fit us fit our group you know; but no we weren’t really aware of our impact, we knew what we wanted to sing and what we enjoyed singing but we didn’t set out to change any thing, we started out as singing gospel and we didn’t jump over any fences so we could sing secular music… we did sing one secular song in our career which was ‘Lets Do It Again’ for a movie score for Curtis Mayfield. You know it had Sydney Poitier, Harry Belafonte and Bill Cosby. And you Know Pop’s told Curtis when Curtis said now Pop’s this is your part here which was (singing) I like you lady… And Pop’s said now come on Curtis man, I can’t sing that I’m a church man and Curtis begged Pop’s he said oh man come on please I’ll pray for ya…And you know the rest of us we all wanted to do the song so bad and we all begged him come on Pop’s. But you know the rest of the songs, the folk songs and what not, Pop’s would tell the song writers, he would say now if you want to write for the Staples Singers, just look at the paper, read the headlines see we wanted to sing about what was happening, and if there was something bad going in the world something wasn’t going right we wanted to sing a song to try and fix it.
And our sound you know Pop’s; well it took me awhile before I realized Pop’s was actually playing the blues on his guitar you know while we were singing gospel music, because that’s what he learned. You know he learned from Charlie Patton and Blind Lemmon you cause my father came up as a boy on Dockerys Farm (Plantation) down in Mississippi and Charlie Patton was there so Pop’s he taught himself but you know he watched this mans fingers he went and bought himself a little pawn shop guitar, you know he put it in layaway cause you know he wasn’t making that much money but then when he got it he taught himself how to play it. So I’m well we’re just grateful that our music has survived, you know that it has done what it’s done. You know we’re grateful for that and we just want our fans to know that we got a lot more coming for you.
M: well good, that’s good to know.
M.S.: yes indeed.
M: And what you said a minute ago, it’s interesting to me, some one on the fan side of what you’ve done both with the group and individually, that in your eyes at least, although many journalists and critics have said otherwise, as far as you’re concerned, you never really did move from spiritual to secular music. And that even when you did start recording the so called message songs which many see as secular, you see them as still spiritual songs which I for one can certainly agree with…
M.S.: Yes I do. They are spiritual.
M: But now at the time, did you get much gruff from the church you know there has always been the troubles with the blues players in particular you know saying they were singing the devils music, getting in trouble with the church, did you as a group suffer from that same kind of thing when you began singing the “message song’s” as opposed to the truly spiritual ‘gospel’ music.
M.S.: Do you know that the only song that the church, they wanted to put us out was ‘I’ll Take You There’… I’ll Take You There. And do you know that’s exactly what they said they said the Staples Singers are singing the devils music and I had to do well all of us we had to do so many interviews trying to tell them you know the devil ain’t got no music. You know all music is gods’ music and you know we were talking about taking you to heaven. And you see you have to listen to the words, and all they heard was the beat, see that’s what happened we had sang for so many years with just our fathers guitar that when we wanted to reach the youth and when Pop’s told us when we got started with Stax he said listen you all I think if we get us a rhythm section and the kids will jump on the beat, they’ll hear the beat then maybe they’ll hear what we’re sayin’. So we got a rhythm section, you know that was the first rhythm section that we had was with I’ll take you there and so we were singing “I know a place, ain’t nobody crying, ain’t nobody worried, ain’t no smiling faces lying to the races.’ Where else would we be taking you but to heaven. Finally people started to listen to us and we were invited back to church and you know that was the first song that was requested right there in the pulpit.
M: Wow. Now that song came out in 71?
M.S.: yes 1971…
M: I was about 7, and I can remember, now that even then at 7 that I knew where you were trying to take me…
M.S.: is that right. That’s wonderful.
M: You know though that’s the funny thing about so many people in this world they get so bogged down in the littlest detail, the tiniest segment of what they believe, that they forget to look at the big picture.
M.S.: that’s right… and see they heard that record being played across the board R&B radio where before we only got played on gospel radio but we were getting played across the board and people as soon as they heard that opening, they would jump up they’d hit the floor and start dancing but you know the church people they just completely shut out the message and then the Staples Singers; and knowing us if they really knew us they’d know that we were very serious with the songs that we’d sing we’re true to our faith and we’re sincere; so if they knew us they wouldn’t have jumped on us like that.
You know they the kind of people well you know they didn’t want Pop’s to even play his guitar in church for a while there, and Pop’s had to go to the scripture and show them where the bible says to praise him with screams, with tambourines, he had to show the preacher where it says to scream and make joyful noise, you know little David with his harp and Gabriel blew Trumpet you know you praise the lord how you want to praise him so when Pop’s started playing the guitar, Gospel singers weren’t playing guitar, Pop’s started all that with the gospel singers. You Know we are really pioneers of a whole lot of things, you know that happened with Gospel and contemporary gospel. We took all the flack, all the beatings you know, but that’s alright…
M: Absolutely… right along side Ms. Aretha.
M.S.: Yes. Yes.
M. Before you all came along there weren’t too many people putting the drums behind spiritual music before the Staples and Aretha Franklin.
M.S.: No indeed. That’s right…
M: I also want to mention that The Staples are being given a Lifetime Achievement Award at the Grammy’s this year, I believe that’s next month and of course you are in the Rock & roll Hall Of Fame.
M.S.: that’s right yes we are…
M: So if the stars line up and there’s any justice in the world you will be given the award during the telecast of course the politics of such things can be tricky.
M.S.: Or yes I hope so, I really hope so.
M: Now of course you’ve had a long and varied career and have worked with a lot of different and diverse people but being in Minnesota, it would be an injustice to my listeners to not ask about working with Prince, who was a producer on two of your records, 1989’s ‘ Time Waits For No One’ and 1993’s ‘The Voice’. How was he to work with, I understand he’s shy but is he easy to work with?
M.S.: Oh yes, he’s as shy as he could be, but he’s a beautiful, beautiful person, he’s very humble and he did everything he said he would do for me.
Our records weren’t played, I got caught up in the argument that Prince was having with Warner Brothers and so Warner Brothers would let my records be played but Prince and I knew, on both but the Voice, especially the Voice that record was about my life. See because this young man wouldn’t talk to me I had to write him letters, I was thinking now how are we gonna be able to communicate if he won’t talk to me so I just thought well I know I’ll write to him so I would write him long letters 12 15 pages, Legal pad pages, telling him about my life. I started from my childhood because I knew who I was with, I knew that this young man was one that god sent I knew what he could do with lyrics, with words, you just give him the story and he’ll fix it. Well that’s exactly what I did, I started with my childhood, and I let him know how I used to like to go to church on Sunday, you know Sunday school and how my mother would dress me in my little cute dress and do you know that any song that you hear on ‘the Voice’ there is some thing from each of my letters in those songs; you know ‘Blood is Thicker Than Time’ when I would tell him how I couldn’t wait for Sunday school my mother would dress me in my patent leather shoes, and my dress, he wrote a verse goes, (singing) “we went to church on Sunday morning dressed up looking mighty fine”. I told him I was married to an undertaker and he wrote me a song called the ‘the Undertaker’ ‘Get Your House In Order’ all of those songs and I’ll tell you that is some of the best work that I’ve done in my live is that record ‘the Voice’.
M: Now that brings me to another thought, Looking back now, is there one or two records or songs that lets say 20 or 30 years from now you can say now that is what they can remember me for, I like that one that’s what I’m proudest of?
M.S.: Oh yes… I would say really the songs that we did the ones we wrote when we met Dr. Martin Luther King, you know those songs meant so much in that time. When we met Dr. King we went to his Church In Montgomery, on a Sunday morning and Pop’s after, we got back to our rooms and Pop’s say’s listen you all I really like that mans message and I think if he can preach it we can sing it. And we began writing freedom songs, protest songs, we wrote
‘March of Freedom Highway’ and that was about a march from Selma to Montgomery. We wrote it’s a long walk to D.C. but I got my walking shoes on; that was for the march in Washington. ‘When Will We Be Paid’ for the work we’ve done… ‘Why Am I Treated So Bad’ all these songs were written from the situations that we saw, ‘Why Am I Treated So Bad’ was written about the “Littlerock nine” those nine children trying to board a bus for weeks to try and integrate the high school. And you know Pop’s and I would watch the news and we saw they had word from the president, from the mayor of Littlerock, from the governor, let those Children go to school. So we’re there watching the evening news and thinking let those children get on the bus and as soon as they get up to that door you know there was a policeman standing there and he had his Billy club out covering, blocking the door and Pop’s saw that and he said now why is he doing that to those children why is he treating them so bad and then he wrote that song that evening, and that song became Dr. Kings favorite. Any time we would be with Dr. King, you know cause we had joined the movement, he would tell Pop’s he’d say “Stape, now your gonna sing my song tonight right?” and Pop’s would say” oh yes sir Dr. we ‘re gonna sing your song.” That was Why Am I Treated So Mad, see those are songs that I would love, I would love to be remembered for all of my work but that time see it was a service that we were trying to do for our people… For all people really. And it was something that we weren’t asking for pay you know we wanted to raise funds for the movement. We would sing and raise funds for the movement, we would march and we felt good. I’ve never felt so proud of what we were doing as when we were doing that, so that’s one of the things I guess. I have a bunch of them really but that’s the big one I’d like people to remember me for, that’s the great one.
M: Well alright, that’s pretty good then… I want to go back to the show once more this Sunday. Is there any one part, one song that you really look forward to when you do this Mahalia Jackson tribute?
M.S.: Oh no, no, the whole concert, all of those sister Mahalia songs you know when I’m singing her songs I’m just the happiest person, well any song really when I’m singing period, I’m happiest when I’m singing and when I do her songs sometimes I can see her when I’m singing, I can visualize her and every one of those songs are going to touch somebody you know they’re going to touch you because they are so meaningful. And you know I always have to tell the people now don’t expect me to sound like sister Mahalia Jackson because I couldn’t there will never be another like her. You know your just gonna hear Mavis singing the songs that sister Mahalia sang. Now I have one accompanist and he switches from piano to organ cause that’s the way she did it I tried to make the Cd as close to the way as she would do it and the record company said we want a rhythm section and I told them well if you want a rhythm section then I can’t do it, cause that’s not how sister Mahalia would do it she’d just have a piano or an organ and that’s what I have on stage with me and that’s all I need…
M: Well Ms. Staples, I want to thank you so much for joining me here today I’ve had a really great time chatting with you, I can’t wait to see the show on Sunday, have a safe trip to town and dress warm. I’m gonna let you go, I’ve already taken a little more than a half hour of your time and I don’t want to take up any more
M.S.: Well I’ve enjoyed all of it. Thank you for having me on.
M: Thank you and I’ll see you on Sunday…